Hello Trish, thanks for your input, and for direction to tutorial.

Mary Rose

Hallo Mary Rose,

There are a lot of different Copper solders on the market. Some are not suitable for Silver. It can happen, that the solder erode the Silver near the soldering seam. Try it out, before you use it on a elaborate work. 

Edmund

Thank you for your input.  I didn't know there are different copper solders.

Mary Rose

Copper solder is 93% copper, 7% phosphorus (+/-). The phosphorus acts as the flux, so no other flux is needed. If the solder is heated too hot or for too long, it turns silver color. The copper solder I have comes as 20 ga. round wire. It is brittle, breaks easily - like if you needed to hammer it flat. I thought it might be my answer to being able to torch enamel over (or near) a solder join. I needed to solder a copper end cap onto the end of a copper tube. Even though the solder was at the inside base of the tube, and the outside of the tube and end cap were thoroughly cleaned and there was no solder showing, the "fumes" or reflowing of the copper solder from the inside to the outside of the tube affected the enamel when I tried to torch enamel it. The enamel didn't adhere well, it flaked off. The solder also melts very flat, almost disappearing onto a surface of copper, almost spreading like liquid. That said, I like using it to close jump rings - just need to be careful to not overheat it to where it looses it's copper color. There is an online posting called "I Love Copper Solder" that convinced me to give it a try. Hope this helps.

Thank you Shirley for your in-depth response and for taking the time to answer my question.  I will give your information to people in my studio class who are anxious for information.

Mary Rose

You're welcome, Mary. I was reading some more this morning about enameling on various metals. It was mentioned that some copper contains phosphorus as a deoxydizer. Great for one wanting minimal firescale; not great for those who do want the decorative effects of firescale. They went on to say that enamel may have trouble adhering to this type of copper - and THAT might explain why my enamels flaked off around my copper-soldered tube/end cap seam. Looks like copper solder definitely is not appropriate to be enameled over (unless one wants a flaky effect). The article was on glass-on-metal.com website, under "metals suitable for enameling" - FYI.

Thank you Shirley for the information.  I keep all my responses in my enamels file.  It is good to know that this group has so many experienced and knowledgeable people. 

If you don't mind, how do you attach a silver tube to a piece of to-be enameled copper or silver; solder it first to the metal or sift the enamel on and place the tube [hopefully] in the space you planned?

Ohmygosh I don't consider myself very experienced, yet. I've done a LOT of reading and am just now experimenting with techniques and materials. It seems that I am doing unconventional processes and have had to plod my way through my own testing. I haven't done much work with silver, other than taking lost-wax-casting 25 years ago which didn't involve very much silver fabrication. I've been experimenting with argentium silver wire. Contrary to sterling, it doesn't develop firescale, and I thought it might be better for enameling. I also discovered "Firescoff", a new flux that prevents firescale when soldering or fusing (or heating) sterling, copper, etc. Firescoff might be my answer to a lot of problems with copper, silver, and enameling - and I am just starting to experiment. [I discovered one very exciting technique using Firescoff, and I'll save that for another post... (~_~)] Yesterday I used argentium hard wire solder to solder a copper end cap onto a copper tube, cleaned it, then torch enameled it using the immersion technique (Barbara Lewis). I did this with 3/8" copper tube/cap, and 1/4" copper tube/cap. The larger one appeared to have enameled well; but a few hours later, a tiny ping popped off at the seam.  The 1/4" tube/end cap turned out well, though I haven't had as much trouble with the smaller tube/caps chipping. With the smaller tube/cap - when I soldered it, the [argentium] solder wicked up between the cap and tube and was visible at the seam. I thought this might cause trouble with the enamel; and even though the solder re-melted and bubbled at the seam just before I plunged it into the enamel, it, to my amazement, enameled well and had no pinging. (fyi-I pickled the smaller one, not the larger.) More testing is needed. Argentium solder might not be my answer, and next I'll try eutectic solder. Anyway, sorry for the long message. As I said, I don't have experience with silver and copper together. I believe they can be soldered together and then enameled (after thorough cleaning, of course); they could also be held together with the fused enamel. I tried this with the larger tube/cap, though, using the enamel as the binder to hold the two pieces of copper together, and the enamel cracked at the seam between the end cap and tube and it fell apart. (It worked okay on the smaller tube.) If you are working with silver and copper, perhaps somebody else on this site could be of more help. I hope this long long message helps!

Hi Shirley, thank you for your reply.  I've used Firescoff mostly with Argentium.  I hadn't thought of using it re enameling but it makes sense.  Thanks for that idea.  And also the fused enamel holding the metals together, another gem of an idea that is useful to work on.  Maybe the enamel cracked because it wasn't hot enough?  Copper and silver can be fused together so you would think they could be enameled together.  Fine silver or sterling, which best for this?  I think it all depends on the temp for fusing and enameling and melting point of the metals.

I learned that eutectic and IT solder have a higher melting point than any other solders and are advised for use with enameling.  Your experiments are very interesting.  I also like to experiment but sometimes I get bogged down with my testing, but with enameling it is important to try new things and see what works for you.

There is no end to what we can work toward. 

Mary Rose

Hello, a friend gave me some copper solder.  I have not used it.  How would this be useful for enameling?

Thanks, Mary Rose