So as you wrote it is impossible to use grinding wheels so as shown in the picture left, for grinding enamel-surfaces with a flex-shaft. The little screw scratch the enamel.
In a workshop I met a lady who use cutting wheels in the following way.
Fix by turns on the shaft-screw one or two side by side cutting wheels and then a 0,3 to 0,5 mm thick cardboard wheel. Make this "sandwhich" so thick as possible. With this tool you can grind small enamelled surfaces whether they are flat, convex or concave. The cardboard prevents that the very thin discs carve into the enamel surface. Grind allways wet and with not too fast rotations. Wear eye-protecting-glasses

Thanks Edmund and Trish,

Your ideas are good, and I'll be looking into both!

Thanks for the supply referral, Trish. It's always good to have another place to shop, as there is nothing here in my remote home area. And I'm self taught, so I love this website and everyone's willingness to participate!

Thanks again,

Kathy

 

I think working with the Diamond-discs is better than working with the cut off wheels. In the 1960/1970 years, you don't get the Diamond-discs in Europe. So sandwhich from the cut off wheels and the cardboard was a stopgap. If you in the Internet  for "Diamond disks for flexshaft" search, you can find some supplier. 

Would water be enough of a lubricant, or would something like "Cool Tool" be better? I see that it's a water soluble wax for diamond saws and discs. Or are the oil lubes better?

I like Minnesota Lapidary's price on their kit. I think $27.00. Found the lubricants there too.

Thanks,

Kathy

Hi Kathy,

For grinding of enamel surfaces with diamond or other abrasives always just water is used.. Oils or other lubricants attach themselves into any existing pores and are very difficult to remove.

Edmund

Ok, thanks Edmund. Glad I asked before placing my order!

Kathy

For polishing / grinding I like a polisher wheel, disc or whatever that is much larger than the piece that I am polishing.  I am assuming that most enamel pieces that need grinding are cabochon shaped.  Anything cab shaped needs to have a uniform surface.  When I grind I move the piece back and forth across the surface and twist the piece as I go.  This avoids flat spots and sanding gouges.  I grind a lot of castings without water and heat buildup is a big problem. The bigger the grinding wheel the more heat it can dissipate.

For the flex shaft technique.  you can practice on plain metal or wood pieces to lean how to control the setup.  The #30 handpiece can be clamped to a table, or the piece can be fixed.  Some people use dop-ing wax, which goes onto a stick and the piece hot, and comes off in the freezer.

If you end up making a polish station, you can use just about any motor.  The trick is connecting the grindy part to the motor shaft.

I like under powered motors.  I often use 6 inch wheels, which on a 1/2 horse motor are much more dangerous than on a weaker motor.

 Older sewing machines come with foot controlled motors that are already setup for belt drive.  

sewing mach motor + epoxy putty + double side carpet tape +  abrasive paper + tupperware (for water shield) + garden sprayer for water.  Please use a GFI outlet on any water grinding system.

cheers M

I go conform with Martin. It is much better, if the disks or wheels are larger than the enamel workpieces, which you want to grind.. The very best machine is a lapidary-machine with some different wheels. But such a machine is very expensive!! Therfore I constructed a simple and inexpensive alternative. With a bit mechanical skills it should not be a problem to copy it. The cost of the machine and the required material is less than 100 US$. Expensive are the Diamond belts. One need a minimum of 3 belts with different grits. Each belt cost about 80 US$. However is the self-constructed machine inclusive the Diamond belt at minimum 500 $ cheaper than a lapidary-machine without the diamond belts.

Instead of diamond belts you could start at first with Carborundum belts. The disadvantage of carborundum belts are: they don't work so quickly and they wear out quick. On long term, diamond is more effective and cheaper.

 If you ever have worked with such a machine, you'll never wish to grind or polish by hand again.

Here you find a blue print how to build the low cost grinding machine:

discussions/1-1000/525-gomkopie.pdf

For a few more ideas on grinders please look at diamond products for working stone counter tops.  Stone counter tops recently became "affordable" because of advancements in grinding technology.  Because stone counter tops are now very popular there are many new companies that sell tools made for grinding granite.  Please look DAMO Diamond Tools as an example.  They sell many tools for use with standard angle grinder.

M

Hello Martin,
because I'M very curios and allways willing to learn something new I had a look to Damo Diamond side. Do you have experience with the there shown tools? In my opinion this tools are not suitable to grind enamel surfaces. The Diamonds are bonded in metal. Thus they are absolutely  nonelastic. That complicate especial the grinding of domed enamelled-surfaces. It exist the risk, that you produce  flat areas or if you work with wheels depressions, and, because this tools are so hard, it could rip the cloisonnè wires out of the surface.
Linda Darty describe in detail in her very good book on pages 52 - 55 " The Art of Enameling" the grinding of Cloisonnè-enamels as well by hand as also with machines. With hand-grinding she use Diamond sandpaper, but I prefer  Diamond-pads. For me the pads are more handy. If you search in the Internet for Diamond-Hand Pads, you'll find a number of supplier. Use also the picture-searching.

Edmund

I am using flexible diamond pads of different fineness for cloisonnè from Kurt Merker GmbH in Germany which is on foam rubber. To be more flexibel I bought also this item without foam rubber as a foil, so I can cut small pieces to polish convex and concave shapes. For hand polishing somewhat complicated shapes, I find this very useful.

www.merker-kmk.com

No Edmund I do not have experience with the diamond grinders made for the granite counter top industry.  I have tried an expandable drum, but I was not pleased as the paper wore down after only one piece.

When I make bread at home I use a 20 Quart mixer to mix 8 two pound loaves in about 15 minutes (while I do the dishes) 

I like to use the same industrial idea when it comes to polishing.  

Do you use dopping wax and stick to hold your pieces?

Have a nice day  marty

I do lapidary work and have alot of experience with all the different rock polishers. For a slightly convex shape (like many cloisonne pieces are) the larger wheel with either SIC or diamond belts with a water drip works the best.

The polisher for polishing granite countertops is a heavy, hand held machine; when you go through all the various grits to get the piece polished you will be exhausted. They are better for flat things, not convex things. I never did get a good polish using one.

If you have access to a used 1/4 hp motor, Kingsley North sells a inexpensive arbor (they call it an "economy mandrel") which can be fixed to a table or plywood, and hooked up to the motor with a belt. You can make a water drip out of a water bottle and IV tubing. The most expensive thing are the belts and wheels.

They make Expando drum wheels which you can put different belts on, lapidarists generally go 100, 200, 600, 1200, 3000, and 8000 grit (in diamond). The SIC (Silicon carbide) wheels only go up to 600. SIC is cheap (3-4 dollars a piece), diamond is expensive (about $40 a belt). The Expando drum wheel is expensive, too.

If I were you, I would look for a gem and/or mineral club in your area. They often have clubhouses that have equipment that you can use and find out what you might want or need.

If you are doing really small pieces, go for the pads that Gabor is recommending, it will be your cheapest option.

Debbie K

 

Hi Martin,
yes, I have dop-sticks and doping wax, but I had used it only, if I small items like earrings have made.
I agree with you, that the Carborundum-belts have no long endurance, but therefor they are cheep. I have some Diamond-belts, which I use. since years. Also if the diamonds on a belt are attrited, one can use it for pre-polishing. Very important is diamond-belts as well as carborundum-belts with enough running water to use.! That extend the lifetime of the belts considerable!
Because I mostly and many 10 x 10 inch cloisonné-plates had grinded, and the diamond-belts works well for years, I think that it work for jewellery-makers a very, very long time.
For hand-grinding i have the same diamond-pads than Gabor used.
I use in the text the past-form because I unfortunately must end enameling since about two years, on account of my age.
Edmund

This discussion is fantastic. So much information. I was just wondering if you still use the stones to clean up around the edges and reserve the diamond options for the final grinding down of the surface, or do you use the diamond options for all of it.

To prevent damage of the  the diamond tools, I grind and  polish the metal edges with my machine and Carborundum belts. Of course you can also Carborundum stones use.
Edmund

When I do  google for alundum stone the first site on the list says this:

"Alundum Stones. These stones are specifically designed to grind glass. They leave no residue that would be injurious upon refire as carborundum would."

Is this true?  What problems might arise from using carborundum?  and does that only affect transparent enamels on refire? 

thanks  M

From what I've read carborundum can cause discoloration if small particles are left in the pores. If you clean it really well with a glass brush, that should prevent it. Take my advice for what it is. I'm well read but I have yet to enamel a piece.

Thanks for the reply.

I think the file is gone a little out of hand. Originally it was all about the question which grinding tools for grinding of enamel you can use with the flexible shaft.

Meanwhile, it is now very generally discussion, how to grind enamelled surfaces.. Therefore here again a slightly more detailed answer.

Alundum stones have the advantage, that work much quicker than Carborundum stones and they are a bit softer. So as all grinding-materials it leaves also grinding-residues in pits or holes, but the residue is much easier to remove than the residue of Carborundum stones. The disadvantage is, that Alundum stones, because of their softness, much quicker consumed.

Carborundum stones leave in every kind of enamel, residue in pits. If you don't remove it, it is especially after refiring to see.

 I can only every time say, Diamond tools, whether for hand or machine grinding, are the very best grinding tools. It works quick and leaves few and easy to remove dirt, have a long endurance, and produce, since the belts and the pads are very flexible, not so deep, hard to remove scratches.

The very well-known Australian enamelist Carolyn Delzoppo, set grinded enamels, with the front side down, into a bath of about 10% ammonia-water. Some of the dirt falls out of the pits. The rest is easy to remove with a glass-or tooth-brush. If you work with ammonia, be very careful. Use eye-protecting glasses and rubber gloves. Ammonia is very cauterize (acidly).

By reason that sometimes small pieces glass-fiber breaks down and penetrant into the fingers, (very displeasing), instead of glass-brushes I prefer a hard tooth-brush.

I assume, any know that one must refill the pits and holes, before firing the work piece again. 

Thank you

I added this to an old discussion of mine, but it probably be a fresh topic. I'm considering buying a flex shaft for grinding and polishing enamel cloisonné. I've been told that diamond is a good way to go. A 22mm diamond disc was recommended with a screw mandrel. I'm concerned that there wouldn't be enough disc to work with, and the screw part of the shaft will gouge the enamel, as it doesn't lie flat but sticks out. Does anyone have comments on this? Thanks...