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Hello!
I am a new member who just joined today! "Hi everyone!"
I have heard of this wonderful website referred to in the Ganoksin/ Orchid forums on many occassions, and decided today to stop what I was doing and just join up!
I am very excited to start working with enamels again! It has been a dream of mine for a long while now. I have taken one course in the past and am looking forward to another in a few months. In the meantime, I am preparing some items to work with in the class, and some questions have occured to me which I think I need to answer before I move one any further...I am hoping some in this forum will be able to offer some assistance. Hopefully as time goes on I can reciprocate and participate better! I thank you in advance!
Here are my questions:
1) what is the mimimum/ maximum enamel heights recommended? (I am considering between .80mm to 1.0mm (opaque) does that sound ok?)
2) is it possible for the surface of the enamel to be convex...ie: slightly domed? ever so slightly higher at the center (say .60mm higher than the sides) and lower at the sides
I am working on a cufflink project, where I would like to achieve a convex/ slightly domed top surface of the cufflink.
it will have a metal wall/ frame around it, that varies in height, and a recessed central background area, which will then have raised text on it.
I want to enamel the background up to the level of the text at the center, and down to the level of the walls at the sides (some sides are higher than others (by about .60mm) , and achieve a sort of convex. slightly domed top profile shape...
Is this possible?
(I hope I am making some kind of sense...! please also see attached photos to get any idea of dome shape top surface profile)
Any advice would be very greatly appreciated~! Thank you in advance!
Best Regards,
Julie
Hi Julie, Glad you found your way to Grains of Glass. Welcome! I hope you enjoy your journey with enamels as much as I have. There are many experienced enamelists here, and I'm sure one of them will chime in soon. After several years, I am still on the learning journey too, but I see some problems you may face with the design. Glass and metal expand at different rates and this creates stress that can crack the enamel. Usually you apply an equal amount of enamel on the back (counterenamel) as you do on the front to balance the stress on both sides of the metal. Your design has an area on the top where there will be no enamel (the area where your letters are). If it were me (and I won't be surprised if others have better ideas) I would make the recess shallower around your letters and have the base be thicker under the enamel. A thicker base and a thin coat of enamel is less likely to crack. It would also make it possible to enamel without counter enamel. Doming actually works in your favor.
Hello M.!
Thanks for your thoughtful reply, I really appreciate it! Hmmm...ok! right now, my "recess" for the enamel is about 1.0mm deep, and the metal base thickness is about 1.2mm at the edges and thicker at about 1.5mm in the center...
...so, perhaps I should raise the base up higher, which would thin out the enamel layer and thicken the base...is there a minimum thickness for enamel that you know of?...ie: the thinnest I would want to go?...I was originally thinking that 1.0mm is thin...but now may need to rethink that specification...!
I will be patient and see if any additional comments come my way as well!
I am re-reading Linda Darty's Book "The Art of Enameling", as well as Glenice Lesley Matthew's book "Enamels, Enameling, Enamelists"
Any additional book suggestions would be very welcome too!
Here is a book suggestion from me to the group, "Jewelry Making and Design" by Augustus F. Rose and Antonio Cirino...I love books and this is one of my favorites, mainly with regard to presenting tools to "loosen up" about the "design" process... which I have always struggled with...
Best Regards,
Julie
Julie,
you did not say if you are etching this project? I assume you would be - I etch all the time - 14 - 16 guage metal is used to etch a piece, especially a large piece because the heavier metal will still have structural strengh after its etched. If you want to have plenty of room to inlay color, you should etch about halfway through the metal, but not always necessary. Sometimes, if I don't want to throw the piece back in the etch, I will use a diamond bur to dig a little bit deeper. 18 - 20 gauge on smaller jewelry pieces, especially if they are formed - and I would suggest doming a bit with a wooden mallet - counter enamel is essential to allow the expansion of the metal and the cooling down -
I am confused by the the term you use "metal - wall frame? is this a box you will be constructing? or are you talking about making a bezel?
What is your clear idea on how you plan to fill the metal etched piece - are you enameling the piece first then setting it into the frame/box? or are you saying you want to lay the etched piece into the box and then fill it with enamels?
I know you asked about where my original comment was, and I had answered it on the Main page - if you look on your Profile page you will see my first reponse - sorry I did not reply in this discussion - I am learning myself how to navigate the system.
Hello Trish,
Thank you for your quick reply! And I apologize for not including enough information!
To give a quick visual description- the cufflink unit is sort of like a very shallow swimming pool. The bottom of the pool is convex/ domed up slighlty. There are solid letters sitting on the bottom of the pool which rise up and stick out above the water. the water would be the enamel.
I am designing this cufflink in 3D Matrix/ Rhino CAD software, and then will send the file off to be 3D printed into a prototype, and then the prototype is burned out and cast into a master model in sterling silver.
Then I will do a rubber mold of the master model, and then pull waxes from the rubber mold to be cast in sterling silver (so that I can make a few sets of cufflinks.) It will be a one piece cast unit that I will first depletion guild, with polishing and enameling being the final steps.
So, I am look forward to assistance in the specs and tolerances I should be conscious of when planning this item.
Using your reply as a guide, noted that 14gg= 1.60mm thickness/ 16gg= 1.30mm thickness
- so if one etches halfway down, then one would get .80mm/ .65mm depth for enamel, and same .80mm/ .65mm thickness of metal, which is workable.
Currently my cufflink "etch" is planned at about .80mm depth, so that sounds within your parameters.
Currently my cufflink "metal" base is planned at about 1.2mm thickness, which is a bit thicker than your parameters...is this ok? I would not be doing any counter enamel...I could, but there is a cufflink stem under the base... is "no counter enamel ok, if the base metal is thicker than the depth of the enamel?
Any further advise would be greatly appreciated!
Also, yoy initially replied on the "Main page". what should I do to get to that area also?
Best Regards and thank you for all your hard work on this website!!!,
Julie
Hi Julie,
this is quite an undertaking - my first piece at Jewelry Arts in New York was a bezel cup with cloisonné wire inside - no counter enamel - so I will not say your piece cannot be done without counter enamel - how are you bringing up the fine silver? nitric acid or consistant flux and refiring? and have you considered casting in fine silver? I just used Race Car Jewelry casting compay in Rhode Island for casting a design in Pink Silver and alsoFine Silver- you can speak with them directly - they also finish the piece after casting - there are also a few casting companies I have used in New York City- since I am very close by - I think you are going to have to experiment and see what happens.
So what you are explaining to me is that you are having the initials designed in wax along with the cup and cast?? If so, this is not my forte and I can't go any further with assistance. I etch on flat metal, then dome, then set in a bezel if necessary -
Can't wait to hear how you progress!
Regards,
Trsih
Hello Trish,
I will be using a torch, and pickle to do the depletion guilding..."rinse and repeat" hee hee!
Since starting the 3D CAD modeling, I have used Racecar Jewelry, as well as Zero Porosity, and have had great experiences with both.
I have an email into Daniel to ask about their yellow gold options, and if they have the ones you mentioned in your message to me. I will ask about the pink silver also!
Patrick at Zero Porosity said that all their yellow gold alloys do contain the zinc...I should email him back and find out what percentage it is...perhaps it is 3% or less as you mentioned...
If I find a source I will definitely let you know!
Best Regards,
Julie
Thanks for the book suggestions Julie. I will check out "Jewelry Making and Design". I also love Linda Darty's book and should probably give it another reading. Can't add anything to Trish's comment, but will suggest Thompson's Workbook if you don't already have it. Thompson has also been helpful over the phone when I've been stumped- 859-291-3800 Good luck on your project!
M
Hello,
I just wanted to check back in and post some results to a similar project I did, which was a cast sterling silver signet ring which had a similar recessed background, that I had already had cast, and enameled shortly after starting this post.
problem: enamel was cracking after 3-4 firing...curved cracks about 2mm inset from the edge (top is shaped like a shield)
- cracks would heal in subsequent firing, only to reappear in a different place, after cooling
- enamel was not pulling away from metal edge
answer- too deep/ too many layers/ too thick layers/ too wet/ too hot
what I think I learned, based on doing this enameling and then experiencing the results, and also doing some more research after, and also from the help from this forum:
1) the 1.0mm recess (similar to etched) depth was too deep, and the enamel too thick, and so I experienced cracking
- I am going to grind down the the top of the ring, to get the enamel to about .40mm thick, and re-fire to gloss and see if the cracking heals.
- I have read that not thicker than .30mm- .50mm is best, in my instance
- I have also read that straight sides, and 90 degree top and bottom corners are better (not to round off the top and bottom)
(ie: sides should be straight up and down, and not curve/ blend. round into the bottom, or top edge)
2) because the recess was too deep, I think I fired too many layers/ and layers were each too thick, for the sterling silver.
- I think it should have probably been 2-3 layers max, and thinner layers.
(which will be possible now that I have reduced the depth for future similar items)
3) I fired at 1500 F, and perhaps I should have fired no higher than 1450 F...still gotta experiment here.
4) i do not think I adequately dried the enamel before firing
5) also, I do not think I allowed the heavy piece to cool slowly/ gently enough.
(we quenched the very bottom of the shank in water...)
6) I am not yet convinced that being "a casting" had an appreciable effect on the outcome...?
I will try to fix this ring, and improve on the design specs for the cufflinks!
so, basically, this was an exercise in doing everything the wrong way! Oh well, lessons well learned now!
anyway, just wanted to add some comments to my original post.
all the best,
Julie