Hi
Manufacturers use copper and silver discs.

copper  ( +/- 0,3 mm)

silver

Good luck :-)

Leszek

I see. Thank you Leszek Adrian. I have also found most of the supplies, but I still cannot find the "glue" (mentioned as "clear flux coat" in the tutorial). do you know the name or brand of this "glue"? Also, do I have to anneal my own cloisonné wire or is there any seller that sell anneal cloisonné wire? Thank you.

Watch video Ricky Frank:

http://grainsofglass.ning.com/video/cloisonne-enamel-start-to-finish-with-ricky-frank

Leszek

Halo Yuki,

to question 1) "Clear flux coat" is no glue, but the colorless clear enamel, also called only "flux" or "Fondant".
Question 2) If you clean the copper-surface with sandpaper, you must, to get it shiny again, polishing the surface. Use, if possible, a polishing compound without any fat. After polishing you must clean the copper with a hard nail-brush with soap under running water. After that rub the surface with a spiritus or alcohol soaked cloth.
Question 3) I think you must "Google" in the net.
Question 4) nearly all the jewelry-enamel are usable for Copper, Silver and Gold.

Supplement. Coat the visible copper surface at first with a very thin layer of clear flux (Fondant) and fire it. These first layer hold later the wire design in place, because the wires sink after firing a bit into the flux.
Before gluing on the cloisonné wires it is wise, to roughen the flux surface very light. That prevents, that the wires slip if you glue it onto the flux surface.
With an holding agent (I use since years a very thin solution of wall paper glue) glue the wires onto the roughened flux surface. After drying, fire it careful so that the wires sink a little bit into the flux.
So as I wrote before, it is very important, that the flux layer is VERY thin. Otherwise the wires would sink to deep into the flux and you don't have enough room, to fill the cells with the color enamels.
After filling all cells and after firing it, you must grind the surface to get a smooth and even surface. If you grind by hand, i recommend Diamond-pads. But this is a new chapter.
If I remember right, you want to use Silver cloisonné wire on copper. Here you must work very careful. Silver and copper may not get in direct contact with each other. If this happens, the silver wires merge with the copper, and the work is spoiled.
Another question was, whether there is a difference, whether you use transparent enamels on copper or silver. Yes it is! Over silver the most transparent show it really color, because the silver reflects the light complete.
Over copper the transparent changes there color, because the brown color of the copper affects the colors of all transparent enamels.

See left: Cu = transparent over copper, 

             Ag = the same transparent over Silver 

Hi Edmund.
What you try to apply a silver plate? Ag999 , Ag 930 ??

Yours
Leszek

Hallo Adrian,
I prefer for all my silver jewelry-work always Fine-silver = 999/1000. If you use transparent enamels onto a silver-alloy, you must prepare in several steps of annealing and pickling the silver,before enameling.

Edmund

Thank you, Edmund.

Leszek

Hallo Adrian,

To complete my answer to your question.
For jewelry, for example earrings up to 3x3 cm I utilize fine silver sheet of 0, 5 mm thickness, for brooches or so up to 5x5 cm, I produce from sheet of 0, 7 mm thickness. To get more stability, I arch all my jewelry slightly, only a few millimeters. The convex arching has additional the advantage, that the work piece is easier to grind and to polish. Self-evident all jewelry has a rim or it gets later framed. Before enameling all hooks or other fastenings are soldered on. Only the needle for brooches, which I make from 0,8 mm thick feather hard stainless steel wire, becomes mounted, after all enameling, grinding and polishing was done.

Edmund

Thank you, Edmund.
I'll do as you wrote.
Sheet 0.7mm (Ag 999) + giloche + enamel.

tests on steel 312L

Pozdrawiam'

Leszek

Hi Edmund.
I have a question.
Are you a silver plate impose counter enamel?

Leszek

thank you for all your repliesSorry for my late response, my colleague from the other shift was sick, and I was the only one who able to cover for him.

Anyway, is there any specific technique to draw the outline of the cloisonne wire on the copper/silver disk?

Dear Adrian, I have made a PDF file how I prepare fine silver sheet for enameling. So you can download it easier. (see below)

Friendly

edmund

Welcome

Copying mere carbon copy.

Draw by hand.

Yours

Leszek

Hi Edmund.
Thank you very much for the tutorial.
These are amazing twisted wires.

suuuuper !!!

I see. I thought there's a way to directly draw the outline on the copper/silver disk. As of the glue, is there a better glue than klyr fire. in my case klyr fire cannot hold the wire in place (A little touched by my tweezer can move the wire). Thus, I had to torch fire the disk everytime I place a cloisonne wire. is there a better way or glue to do this? Thank you

Hello.
You can copy: pad, stamp, decals, etc.
Drawing is the best.

Fire Klyr not stick.
I use the gum tragacanth or wallpaper glue.

Yours
Leszek

Hallo Yuki,

In my "enamel life" I have tried many adhesive. Holding Agent, Klyr fire, wood glue, propeller-glue, rice gruel from China, superglue, lotus root, Tragant and wallpaper glue. In my opinion, wallpaper glue is the best adhesive for enamellists. For bonding cloisonné wire I use it in the consistency of thick syrup or honey. For spraying I dilute it very much. The thick adhesive keeps cloisonné wire sure the spray adhesive stabilizes the enamel powder on steep surfaces reliable.

Here's an example: 

Before gluing the wires onto the piece, the work pieces become enameled with a very thin layer of flux. Since the wires like to glide off on steep, smooth areas, I sand the enamel-surfaces slightly with a diamond-pad. Thereby becomes the gliding nearly prevented.

If I enameling balls, the balls become pre-enameled and sanded as described before. I glue the entire wire-design around the ball without any intermediate firing. The single wires become held with a tweezer and only the lower edge becomes dipped into a thick solution of wallpaper glue and at once transferred to the work piece. After drying of the wallpaper glue, all the cells become filled with a first layer of moist enamel. If the enamel is not too wet, the wires stay in place without any problems. After drying this first enamel layer follows the first firing.

In question design transfer.

I also use carbon paper. I grind the enamel surface with a diamond-pad before transferring the paper design to the enameled surface. The surface becomes a bit rough and the carbon lines are more visible and a bit more smudges proof.

Edmund

Hallo Yuki,
I forgot! Yes with a soft pencil you can draw your design directly onto a pre-enamelled surface. Before drawing, rough the enameled surface slightly with a Carborundum stone or a Diamond-pad as described before.

Pencil-Sketch by Margaret Clark+, Australia.

Edmund

Thanks Leszek, Edmund. wallpaper glue works really well. 

Apparently, I ran into a new problem. in my work, I can see a tiny gap where two different cloisonne wire meet. For example, in Leszek's work:

Is there any way to join them? should I use my torch to solder them together? or... perhaps, putting them in the kiln will do the trick? Thank you

Gluing wires onto pre-enameled surfaces.

Such small gaps are not too tragic. You can avoid it, however.

Glue the wire-design carefully onto the thinnest possible pre-enameled area. Attention! This first enamel order should be as thin as possible. Is the first enamel layer too thick, the wires sink too deeply into this enamel, and the enamel pulls herself up at the wire-edges. (Adhesion)  This results later, when the finished enamel work becomes grinded, to ugly edges along the wires.

Are all wires glued burn the work piece. Once the enamel surface is melted, take the work out of the oven. Using a flat spatula wires press down gently, as long as the work is still glowing. Now, the wires should be securely attached to the first layer of enamel.

Edmund

Hi guys, I am new to cloisonne, but I am planning to make my first cloisonne enameling watch dial for my fiance. my questions are:

1. I read the tutorial in here

http://grainsofglass.ning.com/group/Torchfiring/forum/topics/torch-fired-enamel-cloisonne-tutorial-4-by-chris-hierholzer

I wonder, what is this "clear flux coat"?

2. Since I have a limit on the thickness of the watch dial, I think I have to use sandpaper to accomplish it. On the other hand, I want a shining finish, do you think the dial will lose its shininess after I rub it using sandpaper? do I have to add a new thin layer of clear enamel?

3. where can I get anneal cloisonné wire? If possible, some seller in Asia, Alibaba/Taobao

4. This may sounds stupid, but if I use copper as the base of the watch dial, is it possible to use enamel for silver? Because I am planning to use silver cloisonne wire.

Thank you.