can't fire enamel

    • 77 posts
    May 22, 2013 6:00 AM EDT

    Hi,
    maybe is "Ice Resin" the material you can use for your project. It is a resin, which you can color in many enamel colors, transparent as well as opaque.
     We, the "Real fire-enamellers" do not love the material, because some users of the ressin are unfair and the say it is real enamel.
    At You tube you can some video-clips see how to use the material Ice Resin.  At Amazon / USA you find some Ice Resin supplier.

  • May 31, 2013 11:10 PM EDT

    thank you for the advice Edmund.   I will try that

    • 2 posts
    June 26, 2013 4:00 PM EDT

    In ancient times enamel was always poured. Unfortunately you will need to have the metal heated up to a very high temperature while pouring to get the enamel to fuse to it. I am guessing that that will be impossible - so resin is probably your only choice.

    • 77 posts
    June 28, 2013 11:46 AM EDT

    Dear Catharine,
    with "ancient time" do you mean the "Celtic time ". I only know the statment of the Greek historians Philotratus (after Ch. 170-240) , and Herodot (about before Ch. 490) They wrote "The Barbarians (they means the Celts) pour colors onto the glowing ore. The colors coagulate and become hard as stone"
    However, this statment gets from some historians contested. They think, neither Philostratos nor Herodot have seen the technique life.
    So I think, it is not relevant for the modern enamelist. Or do you know a later statement?
    I think, the problem in the shown piece is overheating. Special the opaque pale blue enamel is very delicate. A lower firing should solve the problem.

    Edmund

    • 2 posts
    June 28, 2013 2:18 PM EDT

    Hi Edmund - I think all historical information is of interest - at least to me! I am doing some historical reasearches on Iranian enamel and all the old sources say that enamel is crushed gems. Of course I know this is not true (but it is hard to convince people that this is not true)! FInding the truth of things in past history is often very difficult. It's true that Herodutus was not always reliable - but there is no particular reason to think he was incorrect in this case.

    Certainly I have never personally tried to pour enamel onto hot metal, and I did mention that it would not be possible in this case. I will ask some people I know who do experimental archaeology (trying to do things exactly the way they used to be done) I am sure someone somewhere has tried it!

    • 77 posts
    June 29, 2013 8:34 AM EDT

    Hi Catherine,
    if you get informations about the ancient enameling-technique, would you please inform me too. I would be very interested.
    Thank you very much
    Edmund

  • June 29, 2013 11:10 PM EDT

    Edmund maybe you have a solution to this problem.  After I use ice resin it remains soft even after a week or so after it is applied. What I mean is I can put a mark in it with my fingernail.  I use enough ice resin so it seems it should get rock hard. And I use it correctly by mixing equal amounts of the solution.  Is it normal for ice resin to remain that soft?  Otherwise it works great with colors and especially translucent colors over gold leaf.  Maybe there is another resin that looks as great as ice resin but hardens better.

    • 1 posts
    June 30, 2013 10:03 AM EDT

    George, have a look at this website http://www.iceresin.com/articles/how-to-use-ice-resin/. The mixing instructions should help you troubleshoot. Also the coloring page might help http://www.iceresin.com/articles/coloring-ice-resin/. Temperature is important, too. Too cold and it won't set up. A heat lamp may help.

    • 77 posts
    June 30, 2013 11:30 AM EDT

    Hi Catharine, hi Chris

    You have given a thought-provoking impulse. It is possible, that the sentence: "They pour color onto the glowing ore“ was wrong translated. Such translation mistakes happen very often and so as in the bible such mistakes run through the centuries.

    In the German language the word "pour" means, that the material which should be poured, must be a liquid. Never one can powder, sand, granular or so pour. Non liquid material will dump, never it will poured.

    If one the German translation accepts at face value, it would mean that the celts heats up the enamel to a liquid in order to pour it then onto the glowing metal. And that is in my opinion nonsensical.

    I had a look into the Google dictionary German-Greek. The German words "gießen" (pour) and "schütten" (dump) have in the Greek translation the same meaning, viz. ρίξτε λίγο in Latin leters: rixte ligo.

    If one now in the German language the word POUR replaces with the word DUMP, get the Herodt sentence sense. Then the sentence is meaning: „They (the celts) DUMP (strewed) color onto the glowing ore (metal)” . And that would be understandable. This technique all enamelists know.

    I hope my English is good enough that one understands what I mean.

    Edmund

    • 77 posts
    July 1, 2013 5:07 AM EDT

    Hi Georg,
    unfortunately I'm not expert for ice resin. But I have seen, that you got an answer. Hope that helps you.
    Edmund

    • 2 posts
    July 1, 2013 12:46 PM EDT

    Yes - I understand perfectly - and it certainly seems to me to be possible. However - it also seems nonsensical that they would sprinkle grains on molten metal when it would be so much easier to sprinkle the grains first and then heat the metal (as we do). Much of what we know about ancient craftsmanship is that quite often they didn't think things througfh - but just did things the way they had always been done, For example, my blacksmith friend tells me that it was many hundred years after the discovery of iron before they started making swords in a way sensible for iron (a straight blade) For a very long time they made iron swords exactly the same way that they used to make bronze swords - even though it was not very sensible.

    I have written to some of my archaeology friends from Ireland and hope to get an answer if someone has tried the pouring method. I will let you know when I hear back

    I do remember reading that they had established that the glass used for enamelling in Ireland came originally in lump form and was manufactured in Italy (they have found large lumps of red enamel and the tests are identical with pieces from Italy)

    The earliest examples of Irish champleve type enamel are with red opaque glass in a very thin engraved groove. This seems to me like it would be very difficult in either method

  • December 2, 2013 2:16 PM EST

    In France the law forbids to use the word  enamel for something that is not  fired at more than  600°C. And  it's a good thing because  there is the same difference between the 2 materials as between  the  crayon colors  that a child applies on a printed drawing following the  printed numbers and a n oil  painting painted by any  artist. You can  use those cold resins of course it will do if you can't fire

  • May 21, 2013 10:25 PM EDT

    Because of the situation where the enamel will be placed I can't fire it.  Isn't there anyway that enamel can be poured.  I really doubt it but thought I would give it a try.  Or is there something as beautiful as enamel that can be poured.  Again I doubt it but thought I would give it the old college try anyway.  Maybe darker material of some sort might come close to how enamel looks.  Or maybe dark translucent material.  Any ideas?

     

    I am a newbie to enameling.  Have done some and had some success and of course some failures too, being new at it.