I'm trying to decide on what type of mechanical grinder (wet, of course) to get to save my arthritic fingers from so much hand- stoning to finish my pieces. We have some Diamond Pacific brand units in the studio that are normally used for lapidary but I've found the belt/ wheels don't have much give so I'm only hitting a small area of the domed enamel at any given time. Even with a very fine grit (these units go to 3000 grit) I'm not getting an even grind and it just seems to be faceting the surface. Does anyone here use a mechanical means of grinding to recommend? Or a technique to recommend to use these grinding wheels better? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've included a photo of the kind of machine I'm trying to use. Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[blockquote]Jewel Clark said:

I'm trying to decide on what type of mechanical grinder (wet, of course) to get to save my arthritic fingers from so much hand- stoning to finish my pieces. We have some Diamond Pacific brand units in the studio that are normally used for lapidary but I've found the belt/ wheels don't have much give so I'm only hitting a small area of the domed enamel at any given time. Even with a very fine grit (these units go to 3000 grit) I'm not getting an even grind and it just seems to be faceting the surface. Does anyone here use a mechanical means of grinding to recommend? Or a technique to recommend to use these grinding wheels better? Maybe I'm doing something wrong. I've included a photo of the kind of machine I'm trying to use. Any advice is much appreciated!

 

[/blockquote]

There is a good discussion about grinding in the Forum under the heading" Flex Shaft Grinding".

Hello Gabor,

I did run a search for grinding before posting my own question but nothing came up as an already underway discussion. I just now tried to find the forum post with the heading "flex shaft grinding" and nothing comes up- I also just tried "flex shaft" in all options for the forums and still nothing. Would you be able to provide the link? I have no idea where to start looking- there are so many pages of posts!

If you go to the No.6.page of the Forum, the last topic is Flex Shaft Grinding.

I also don't understand, why a search with key words is not possible in the Forum ? Nevertheless, if you go page by page, you will find it.

Thank you! Yes, I'm not sure why it's not working. My own post with your replies came up when searching for those words but no other posts. Thank you again.

I have built an inexpensive wet-grinding machine by myself. The plan was published in Glass on Metal and is on my PC on hand as a PDF file. Unfortunately, one can not upload PDF-files in this forum here. If you me, Edmund Massow, accept me as a friend, I can send the PDF file to you as an e-mail
Edmund

Hi, I had the idea, to post the first page of the "Grinding Machine blue screen" as a photo print. So you got an idea how it looks.

Hello Jewel Clark,

I have a small amount of experience with the wet wheel grinders you pictured (when doing lapidary), and have a few thoughts I would like to share that may help solve your issue.

In terms of how the grinding surface is actually making contact with your piece:

1) basically, the grinding wheel is round in circumference, and so only a small surface area (the tangent point, or line in this case) is really touching your domed piece at any given moment. 

- of course, if the wheel is rubber backed, then the contact area will be a bit larger, as the face of the wheel will flatten out a bit, with pressure you are applying.

2) your piece is domed (also rounded) and so it makes only makes contact with the surface of the wheel at it's tangent point, a small circle in this case) at any given moment as well.

So, the idea is to consider this when grinding/ polishing your piece, and moving your piece in such a way as to take advantage of the way the wheels contact and cut your piece, and not allow the piece to remain in one place too long.

If you remain in one place too long, you will grind down one place, and create a flat area (or facet).

If you constantly move the piece, you will not create a flat area, and will get a smoother surface

Also, the wheels spin rather fast, and depending on the grit you are using can cut very quickly and aggressively, and so due consideration should be used when determining which grit to start with and the progression of grits you need, in order to achieve the look you are after.

I hope that makes some sort of sense, and helps you a bit.

All the best,

Julie

 

This post was edited by Julie B at August 11, 2015 1:26 PM EDT

Hello again,

 

oh gee, I just remembered that you can get the same type of grinding wheel grits that are available for the pictured grinder wheels, but as mounted points and wheels suitable for the flexshaft or similar hand held tool.  They look similar (but slightly different) than  your typical jewelers mounted rubber wheels and points...

like these nova polishing points and wheels used for lapidary

http://www.lapidarymachines.com/stone_carving_tools.shtml

 

 

 

 

there are also flat round pad mounted mandrels that have velcro versus the screw that may be helpful as well.

 

I have not tried these on glass yet, only stone, but i am guessing that they would be suitable, as we already use many types of diamond electroplated and resin bonded polishing pads/ sponges/ files for enameling, which are designed for stone/ granite/ marble/ glass...and these points are offered in a broader range of finer grits.

 

All the best,

Julie

 

This post was edited by Julie B at August 11, 2015 4:03 PM EDT

Hello and thank you, Edmund and Julie! Edmund I found an article here: http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/4882493/850746836/name/Electrical+low+cost+grinding+machine.doc. Is this part or all of your article? I also see you posted this pdf link: http://www.grainsofglass.com/discussions/1-1000/524-gomkopie.pdf, which is slightly different from the one I found. I am most interested in the sanding drums you show in it. Do you order the foam from the same company you have cut it?

Julie, yes, my concern was the small contact area on those round wheels hitting a domed surface. The rubber under the abrasive is so stiff, I was wondering if anyone knows of a much softer rubber backing that would allow one to push the enamel into the abrasive with less resistance, thereby getting more contact. They also run faster than I think is necessary. I thought the idea from the other grinding post (flex-shaft grinding: http://www.grainsofglass.com/forums/topic/171/flex-shaft-grinding) for the SC sticky backed discs sounded promising but when I went to the company (Minnesota Lapidary Supply) suggested I couldn't figure out what to narrow my scope to. If I can I'll probably get both options for the flex shaft- yours above and the one used by Ricky Frank if the company can help me figure out what kits he put together, and Edmund's as his may be more useful for larger pieces and volume work.

I've got to figure out how to grind my enamels without wearing my hands out any further! Thank you again!

Hi Jewel Clark,

Also, I am not sure what your current mode of grinding/polishing is, or the size/ scole of your pieces, but I would also like to share a resource that I just ordered from yesterday.

diamond sanding pads- electroplated, as well as the resin bonded for further smoothing

they come in:

- the larger brick shape sponge, with a larger flat surface area, like for lapping 

- the smaller, thinner square foam backed pads that can be used for more contoured surfaces 

- the plastic handled files in various widths and even a few half rounds.

- strips

His GlassWorks

http://www.hisglassworks.com/shop/hand-grinding.html

 

this link explains the difference between the electroplated and the resin bonded

http://www.hisglassworks.com/learn/disks/

 

On a related note, I just found this cool grit to mesh to micron conversion chart for abrasives.

(mesh not meaning same as enamel mesh I don't think...)

 

http://www.cafa-info.org/grit.html

 

all the best,

Julie

 

 

 

This post was edited by Julie B at August 11, 2015 6:02 PM EDT

Julie, thank you!!! I really appreciate that info! Currently I'm hand grinding, pretty much all jewelry scale but with my arthritis I'm limited in how much I can accomplish with this method for the entire process. I prefer to finish the work by hand.

Trish, yes, I always grind wet no matter what method I'm using. Definitely very important and thank you for checking!

:-)

 

Hello Jewel Clark,

are these the items you were refering to from the Minnesota Lapidary Supply?

http://www.lapidarysupplies.com/MLS_Catalog_2014.pdf

page 38

"DIAMOND SANDING / POLISH DISCS - These discs are made of a unique blend of diamond powders mixed with resins which is applied to a tough synthetic pressure sensitive adhesive (PSA) backing pad. Each mesh size diamond is a different color allowing easy identification of diamond size. The color is also an easy way to determine the condition of the pad. AS LONG AS YOU HAVE COLOR, YOU HAVE DIAMONDS!!! These discs provide a superior polish. These discs MUST be run WET!!!"

 

They look great!  seems like one would use them like how you brush crumbs off the table, with a sweeping motion...

I think I want  to order the set to test it out. $27

I would think 325 and 600 for grinding down the enamel to level it, fast

...and then higher if you then also wanted to use these to take to the piece to a sort of final polish...

 

...or possibly with tripoli and rouge after?..."instead" of final flash firing?...

I think tripoli about equal to 800 grit...?  but it is tricky as you cannot really compare apples to apples! 

 

ie, regarding my purchase from hisglassworks.com, the 325 grit resin bonded pads I bought are more equivalent to about 600 grit, where as the 325 electroplated pad is...325! 

 

 anywhooo...

all the best,

Julie

Hello again!

...sorry for all the messages! (don't mean to be a staulker, but I was just thinking...I gotta stop doing that!)

...if you are experiencing some arthritis, then perhaps holding a foredom flexshaft handpiece (and fighting with the snake/ cable), or even a larger (heavier/ bulkier) dremel might not be confortable either, come to think of it...as you have to grip with pressure...and the hand action is more...tightly controlled...I know my fingers get fatiqued when working with the flex shaft...

in the one hand, you will be holding the enamel piece (ie: pinching/ gripping fingers)...and with the other hand you would be holding the flexshaft handpiece or dremel...

and when you are using a (bigger) grinding wheel polishing machine spinning at lots of rmps, or even a variable speed flex shaft and grinding wheel, you have to hold onto the piece really well so it doesnt get "pulled" out of your grip...

I am wondering if the larger diamond hand polishing pads (that look like sponges/ bricks) might be the most ergonomic for you...lightweight, easy to hold...actually any of the hand pads/ files might end up being more comfortable for you...

if you are using the more aggressive 100 or 200 initially, it only takes a few passes to level the surface...and the sponge does give...

perhaps you are not starting with an aggressive enough grit and therefore it is taking more passes/ longer and is harder on your body/ hands...?

just a thought...I know how costly new set-ups can be, especially if you end up not prefering it...

ok, I will stop now! 

all the best,

Julie

Hello,

oh my gosh, here I am again...!

ok, one last thing, I promise...when it comes to sanding/ filing etc, it is really important to brace your work, to get the most effective work out of the tool...versus "air filing"...which a lot of people do like to do...but if you have hand/ arm issues, it is even more important to make the tool do as much of the work as possible...

I am speaking without any context as to your studio setup, so I apologize if I am stating the obvious...please forgive if I am...!

a rubber pad would be a good brace...i know they even sell rubber bench pins for filing...

 

any whooo

all the best,

Julie

I am relatively new to enameling but have been using a JoolTool from the start to finish my pieces, both glass and metal. It's basically effortless and the the JoolTool has MANY applications. Their website is www.jooltool.com.
Megan

Hi,

yes both are on my script "Low cost wet grinding machine"  based on , whereby I published the "Glass on Metal"-copy in "Grains of glass". As I wrote you my answer, I can it not find in GOM. But I do not know How the copy comes into the HP: "xa.ying.com" because I have never heard from this site. So you have a copy and I must not send it again.

I am not a friend to grind enamel surfaces with a flex-shaft. Most of the grinding tools have a too small diameter. So it is very difficult to get a realy flat enamel-surface without any "waves".

To hold the enamel pieces better during the grinding process, you can avail a technique of the gemstone-grinders. They fix small items with a so called dopping-wax onto a stick. These constructions make it easy to hold the enameled work piece during the grinding process. Before a while, I published a script about this technique. But once again, I cannot find the copy in the new GoG.

Here are some pictures of the script. If you want to get the whole script, I can send it as an E.Mail.

Edmund

 

Fasten the dop stick to the work piece       Grinding a very small item on the wet grinding machine

This post was edited by Edmund Massow at August 12, 2015 10:24 AM EDT

Edmund great machine :-)

Hi!

Yes, Leszek, I agree!  Edmund, thanks so much for taking the time to share your wonderful inventions.  Your foam disc polishing wheel is ingenius!  And your dop stick info is very helpful!

 

Hi Megan, 

Yes!  the jooltool!  great suggestion!  

 

This is such an informative forum, with a very generous community.  I am glad to have found it!

 

All the best,

Julie

This post was edited by Julie B at August 12, 2015 12:28 PM EDT

Wow! What great info! Thank you all! Julie, no worries- I appreciate all your comments and suggestions and thank you for finding those diamond polishers! Those look like the right ones and about the right price from the other forum post. I also love your suggestion on the foam backed diamond pads. I think those would be a good set of tools in the arsenal. I do think for longer grinding sessions the flex shaft won't be practical but it might be good for quick fixes and such. I work in a fully equipped studio (check out the photos on the Studios page at www.macjewelryclasses.com- I'm a lucky gal!) but it never hurts to check those basics with people because there can always be something fundamental that they missed in their education (or self-teaching). You won't see my little corner of the studio in those photos but I've got most of my own equipment as well- minus something to help me grind those enamels! I will definitely be adding these resources to our Resource page and if anyone can recommend any other great suppliers, please let me know.

Edmund- I have no idea how your article ended up there either but it came up fairly quickly on a Google search. Thank you for the offer though and I'm very glad to have that information! Thank you so much!

Megan, I looked at the Jool Tool and it looks great as well and I liked that it used diamond abrasives!

Great options and suggestions! Now I need to figure out which to try first! Thanks again!!!

Hello Jewel Clark,

That is an awesome facility and studio!  You are a lucky gal!

btw, I just watched the video you were referring to "Cloisonne Enamel from start to finish" by Ricky Frank, and interestingly enough, it appears that he also creates his own flex shaft attachments, like Edmund, in that he takes a flat rubber topped mandrel, attaches sponge for a flexible backing, and then attaches dual-lock (like velro) and then uses a velcro backed diamond pad (aroung 200grit).

So he, like Edmund, is modifying the attachment to have a more giving backing with sponge!

...I am not sure if the MLS ones have a sponge backing, but I bet you can modify those too!  

Best Regards,

Julie

Low cost grinding machine.

Meanwhile some folks have copied the grinding machine and some have made idea for improvement.

1) They replaced the water-container with an Irrigator. The intestine-Irrigator (you can order it by Amazon) has at the base a water outlet with a flexible rubber- or plastic-tube and a valve.

 

2) An another user fastens the cordless screwdriver with a horizontal-drill rig. Unfortunately I cannot find the English designation. But I think the picture is self-explanatory. Important is, that one pay attention, that the clamping ring of the drill-rig is so designed, that it can house the neck of the screwdriver. If the clamping ring only is a bit too large, you can make an inlay of a rubber-sheet strip.

Edmund

RE: "JoolTool"

How JoolTool works you can see in several videos by You Tube under "Jooltool".

Edmund

This post was edited by Edmund Massow at August 13, 2015 9:42 AM EDT