i am first-time enameller with acrylics

i bought the "prep".....i dont know if the mixture was too thick or not

after firing, the metal/copper was reddish underneath the pre-enamel mix

having no idea as to what it should look like or the thickness, i then painted on acrylic enamel, not necessarily a very thick coat...

it came out, not too purple(and a lot blackened in parts); in other words, i didnt achieve an opaque coverage

is that normal? did i prep right? do i need to apply more than one coat? i used kiln and it was at its highest, between 1490 and 1500 or so; i left it in for approx 1-1/2 minutes....

thanks.......basic questions i know, but my teacher has NOT used acrylics, so I am doing the adventure on my own

please help......thanks

It would be very helpful if you could post a picture. I am not sure what you mean by "prep". It sounds like you are painting the acrylic enamel directly on the copper - and it is not meant to be used that way. It is meant to be used over a regular coat of enamel. I have used it on white and black but it could theoretically be used on any colour. The base coats of regular enamel that you build up to apply the acrylics to should be smooth and mature, fired in the regular way around 1450F. The acrylic enamels should then be applied to this coat just as you would apply acrylic paints to paper. The firings will then be very low 1250-1300F (time will depend on the size of the piece) If they are fired carefully they will maintain their physical integrity (i.e. you will be able to see brush marks and ridges) but if overfired by even a few seconds will start to spread

If you are using liquid enamel - that is another thing altogether. This can be used as a base coat - and it can also be painted with. It comes in powder form and can be mixed with water.

thanks Catherine, you've helped

i shall go back and use the techniques you mentioned.  I did use powdered liquid enamel, mixed with water, as a base.  It turned red after firing.  I used the liquid base, "prep" on copper. I learned that it doesnt take to the pickle either; it can flake; so how do i pickle oxidation off of copper that wasnt intended to be enameled? 

when applying liquid enamel, is it always better to use at least two coats? 

i also fired the acrylics at too high of a temp! thank you....for mentioning temps.....important and i had no clue :))

stay tuned.......

and many thanks

I am not at all familiar with the liquid enamels - though I had just ordered some! So I will post the results of my tests when I have them

Are you using flux? If that is what is looking red, it's becasue it was not fired high or long enough. Flux needs to go to 1450F and stay there for at least 15 seconds before it will go clear. Perhaps becasue you are using liquid enamel you are getting too thin a coat. The good news is that you can re-fire it again at a higher temperature if it didn't work the first time. If it is acid sensitive - you will have to find other methods of keeping it free of firescale. You can use scalex and paint it on the places that you don't want firescale to develop, or you can abraide the firescale off with siliconecarbine wet/dry sandpaper or diamond cloths.

Is there a reason you are using liquid enamel for a base coat? Ordinary enamel sifted would work just fine. Also - apparently you can apply the liquid enamel, then sift more larger grains on top to make a more substantial coat. (Of course then you would have to worry about the coat being too thick ;-)

Catherine

PS the flaking may be due to the coat not being fused properly rather than acid sensitivity. I am still not quite understanding what you mean by "prep". Is this a product that you apply to the copper before applying the enamel? I anneal, quench, pickle and neautralise before adding enamel (taking care never to touch the prepared serface) You shouldn't need any other prep...

Catherine

the "prep" is

the powder mixed with water, to use as a base before applying acrylics.

i see from your previous post that i can use acrylics over enamel, which i am going to try.  Can i mix the liquid enamel with an acrylic color and apply?

what i am questioning is the application of acrylics and the outcome?

hope this clarifies.....i am using liquid enamel as a "base".....maybe "prep" was the wrong word

again, thank you...

When you ask if you can mix acrylics with liquid enamel I would have to ask why? It really depends on what you are trying to do. You 'can' do anything you want if you are willing to have unpredictable results ;-)In enamel there is not right and wrong!

Are you trying to get a particular effect, or colour in your base coat?

Acrylic enamel isusually used for painting over another coat of enamel, but there is no particular reason to say you have to use it that way. That is why it was formulated the way it was (to look and act like acrylic paint) But things often end up being used for other than their intended purpose (especially by enamelists ;-)

It is usually painted over a base coat of enamel. That coat does not need to be liquid enamel. Again - why are you using liquid enamel? Do you want to create a particular effect? There is no particular reason to use liquid enamel in this context. (Painting)

Catherine

i replied to this, however, it may have not posted

so ill reply again

i was told to use LCE-2 by Thompson as a "base" before using acrylic paints

LCE-2 is in powder form and i mix with water and paint on, let dry and fire; im not real sure of consistency, and on flat surfaces i got good coverage and it survived pickling too.

i need to try painting over a fired piece  I think.

as far as creating a particular effect......i would ask your suggestion as to how to create "success"......:)

thanks for your patience...perhaps i need to know what flux is? and how it is used......i think terminology is getting in the way also and honestly, im not that fluent in enamelese :)

thank you again

Stephany, at a Thompsons workshop in acrylic /alternate types of enamel, we used pre-coated steel enameled white by the factory as plaques to paint on...check the catalog. You also can see their intro to liquid enamels as a base coat, and they showed sifting on the same color as a topping while the LC is still wet. Video is on their site. This tends to give a nice flat, full coating in 1-2 firings on both sides of a copper plate. Acrylics let us do painterly work. I found just LC (I have black, white, clear flux) is a bit tricky to coat very evenly so practice. you can always rinse off and save to the counter -enamel jar.  Red under the clear liquid LC is under-fired. I am fond of OVER-firing it to have nice organic burn-out areas and greens edging the lovely golden 'just right' areas. Then the burn/scaled metal area can be cleaned and polished, etc. It is very 'experimental = organic' = you can't control it, except by thickness variations. But fun.

Sorry, just noticed your question on flux. It's clean enamel, comes in hard (high temp flow to maturity) to medium to soft varieties. Each is used in diff. ways. Ex: hard flux makes a 'cushion' under transparents to hold cloisonns to the copper/silver to prevent them turning too dark or in case of reds/oranges to turn muddy on copper, or for silver, silver specific flux to prevent warm colors being really ugly. Flux as a term is not anything like the flux used in jewelry brazing/silver soldering (except it 'glasses' for a few moments) while it keeps metal clean enough for solder to flow in a joint of metal. BTW, solder under enamel is almost always a failure.  terminology is really confusing in this use of the same word to designate 2 different substances!